What happens at Mozilla's new Ideas platform at Crowdcity? Not much

Mozilla launched a new Ideas platform this June on the third-party platform Crowdcity. The main idea behind the platform was to bring users and Mozilla employees together to share ideas related to the Firefox web browser.

Registered users can post ideas and everyone else may vote on these ideas and leave comments. Mozilla would then decide whether to implement ideas in Firefox or not.

Six weeks later, Mozilla's Ideas platform looks like a ghosttown. Users are still publishing comments on the site but the last idea was posted three weeks ago to the site. Users are still submitting ideas, but are held in moderation when submitted. A quick test submission to the site confirmed this.

mozilla ideas moderation

Site moderators have not published any new idea in the past three weeks. When you look at their activity, you find that they stopped their activities about three weeks ago.

Has Mozilla abandoned the Ideas platform already? It looks like it on first glance, but there may be an explanation for the absence. Maybe, all administrators and moderators are on Summer holiday currently, or work on different projects. Even then, one would assume that Mozilla would have picked someone to manage the platform in the absence of the other administrators.

Without new content, Ideas looks like it has been abandoned. Besides the lack of new ideas, there is also the problem that no published idea has been labeled as "under consideration", "partially adopted", or "adopted".

It is possible that some are discussed internally by Mozilla and that they will be labeled accordingly once a decision has been made.

Closing Words

Mozilla employees have not interacted with the Ideas platform for at least three weeks each; this is a major problem as new ideas are not published on the site. The absence of staff is also apparent in the comments and the labels that promote ideas to at least a "we are thinking about it" status.

Whether it is already too late to get the site back on track remains to be seen. Mozilla needs to assign at least one moderator or administrator to the site who is approving new idea submissions and interacting with the community.

If that does not happen soon, it is likely that the last die-hard users will abandon the site as well.

Now You: what is your take on this?

Summary
What happens at Mozilla's new Ideas platform at Crowdcity? Not much
Article Name
What happens at Mozilla's new Ideas platform at Crowdcity? Not much
Description
Has Mozilla abandoned its Ideas platform that it created in June 2021?
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Ghacks Technology News
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Comments

  1. Anonymous said on July 19, 2021 at 3:46 pm
    Reply

    Mozilla engage with the common rabble? Surely you jest. They have long abandoned what they were founded for and we now have a Chrome monopoly as a result.

  2. ULBoom said on July 19, 2021 at 4:00 pm
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    “what is your take on this?”

    Someone got in big trouble for inventing this: “No one else does this, why should we?! Your new assignment is reconciling expense accounts for the Foundation!”

  3. ShintoPlasm said on July 19, 2021 at 4:06 pm
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    From the Mozilla playbook: create yet another pointless idea, invest lots of money in its PR, ignore users’ complaints, abandon pointless idea. Repeat ad nauseam.

  4. Mike Harris said on July 19, 2021 at 4:19 pm
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    It’s almost as if … now hear me out, because certainly their prior behavior never supports this (gasp!) … as if they don’t give a flying f— what users actually want to see in Firefox! Quick, let’s remove three more features, add bizarre wide spacing to another, and remove three code bases!

  5. Tony said on July 19, 2021 at 4:21 pm
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    Firefox is in it’s death throes,but selling their souls to Google is keeping them on life support.And don’t forget the die hard fanboys that cheer and support anything the developers come up with.Makes no difference to that lot,they would cheer on Firefox if it only had a home button.And no that Proton monstrosity isn’t winning them over many new users either.

  6. Anon said on July 19, 2021 at 4:34 pm
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    Mozilla doesn’t care and it hasn’t cared for years. The recurrent UI changes and deprecation of features are proof enough of that. You don’t get down to sub 3% market share because “reasons”, you do because you suck at doing your job. And unlike people say, no, it’s not that the market is growing and Mozilla remains with the same users they had before. Simply check their user activity reports: from 2019 to today, they have lost approximately 60 million users!

    The Ideas platform was just a way to direct feedback into a blackhole. That way users have the illusion they are being heard and hang on to the hope something will change for the better, but Mozilla is on a downward spiral and still accelerating fast towards the bottom.

    1. Anon said on July 19, 2021 at 6:11 pm
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      I have just noticed, from the screenshot, that Martin used Brave to give feedback to Firefox. Veeery sneaky.

  7. ho said on July 19, 2021 at 4:35 pm
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    Mozilla “Feedback Hub”.

  8. ShintoPlasm said on July 19, 2021 at 4:46 pm
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    Pointless waste of resources as always with Mozilla.

  9. Paul(us) said on July 19, 2021 at 4:57 pm
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    Correct me if you think I’m wrong but wouldn’t they have been better off waiting until after the vacations to startup?
    If you start this kind of website then you already have some topics ready, right?

  10. ChromeFan said on July 19, 2021 at 5:17 pm
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    It is dead, just like its browser. Any browser that has less users than Firefox is a dead browser.

    1. ShintoPlasm said on July 19, 2021 at 9:05 pm
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      Not so Brave, Vivaldi or even Opera.

      1. Anonymous said on July 20, 2021 at 7:01 am
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        Yep,those browsers have less users. Yandex,ungoogled chromium,Palemoon,Waterfox ect…
        also have less users.

      2. Iron Heart said on July 20, 2021 at 9:57 am
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        @Anonymous

        None of the browsers you list, with the possible exception of Pale Moon, is a “hard fork” of the parent, Yandex, Ungoogled Chromium closely follow the development of Chromium. Waterfox closely follows the development of Firefox.

        Pale Moon differs more from the parent (Firefox, Gecko) but even it can only render pages correctly because Goanna still bears a strong resemblance to Gecko.

        Engine development is the costly part of developing a browser, soft forks with low market share have no issue as long as they closely follow the parent. However, Firefox *is* the parent of all Gecko-based browsers and FF itself sits at a mere 3% market share…

      3. Iron Heart said on July 20, 2021 at 8:29 am
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        @ShintoPlasm

        I’m going to point out the obvious difference between Firefox and Brave / Vivaldi / Opera: The former has its own rendering engine, whereas the latter all use Blink. As long as the big boys Google Chrome and MS Edge don’t fail, Brave / Vivaldi / Opera will be doing fine, because whatever features of their own they add and need to maintain, it’s literally a nothing burger compared to the costs of engine development. As long as Google Chrome and MS Edge stay strong, Brave / Vivaldi / Opera will never have issues with rendering websites. However, if Firefox further goes down, web developers will stop testing their code on Gecko eventually.

      4. ShintoPlasm said on July 20, 2021 at 9:52 am
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        @Iron Heart:

        I’m definitely noticing more and more website compatibility issues with FF compared to the Blink browsers. Still reporting such issues via Webcompat when I can be bothered, but it’s becoming really tedious at this point.

      5. ChromeFan said on July 20, 2021 at 12:50 pm
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        @ShintoPlasm Brave has 35 million users (and growing), and Vivaldi has 2 million users. Maybe one day Brave will surpass Firefox (in users). Opera has more users than Firefox (380 million and growing). Although Firefox users are going down every month.

        Maybe dead is the wrong word to use as Brave does not rely on outside money and is doing well for it self. Vivaldi, although it has only 2 million users, it looks like it is also doing well for it self.

    2. ULBoom said on July 21, 2021 at 2:46 pm
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      Whatever. With Chrome dominating mobile, Safari way behind in second place and no real reason for phone users, almost all of whom couldn’t care less about anything but !!!!nodificasheons!!!!!, mobile share is irrelevant.

      IOTW, it’s not a viable market for anyone except google, apple, samsung and ms, the verybigdudes who can dump left over cash into it.

      Desktop is what matters, consider only that and FF is doing twice as well! Yay! :)

      Try Falkon for real fun.

      1. Iron Heart said on July 22, 2021 at 3:38 am
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        @ULBoom

        When did gHacks beome this stupid? Just because you don‘t care about mobile, doesn‘t mean that developers don‘t have to test their websites on mobile. Mobile matters for the majority of people out there.

        You display the same level of ignorance as @Yash. @Yash believes that there were no technical reasons for Firefox‘s fall from grace, and you try to explain away Firefox being in bad shape by declaring mobile to be irrelevant. The fanboys and diehards seem to have a hard time coping with reality.

        Firefox‘s downfall is the result of lagging behind in several areas for years and cretin decision making at the highest levels of Mozilla. And personally, ever since they advocated for a censored / filtered web, I firmly believe that they are now exactly where they belong, in total irrelevancy. I wouldn‘t appreciate totalitarian-minded people winning back any kind of power. I mean heck, they ran this „YouTube Regrets“ bullshit project that asked Google to censor YouTube (How exactly is that Mozilla‘s business to begin with?) even MORE than before. Such companies need to go away and quickly at that.

      2. Yash said on July 23, 2021 at 1:27 pm
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        @Iron Heart
        “You display the same level of ignorance as @Yash. @Yash believes that there were no technical reasons for Firefox‘s fall from grace, and you try to explain away Firefox being in bad shape by declaring mobile to be irrelevant. The fanboys and diehards seem to have a hard time coping with reality.”
        First thanks for kind words.

        You don’t read properly. In mobile ecosystem Google and Apple are fined billions every year. And they on purpose do unfair things like not supporting YouTube on Windows Mobile years ago. Apple still hasn’t released proper support for iMessage for Android yet. There are many cases, to find them use your uncensored internet. Its true Firefox share in Android is less(still 100 million downloads on Play Store) but that has more to do with DEFAULT APPS, for which again I repeat Google and Apple are fined billions. Its not a coincidence that top downloaded apps on both Android and iOS are the ones which are default. So percentage share and all those things are meaningless especially when some uncontrolled monopolies are running the show.

        Plus things are hot in mobile landscape with Pegasus. Turns out Apple is shit in security and Android is equally bad. Not to mention usage share doesn’t tell whole story, as it turns out their default apps not only collect data, they’re not secure either just like their OS despite sandboxes and what not – real world example by the way. Its funny some people who said Firefox, even Tor, is not secure and praised Google are now speechless when the true nature of Apple and Google was revealed. Turns out if you don’t care about privacy and use lame security tag for unfixed vulnerabilities about user privacy, well some other folks will take advantage of it aka Pegasus. So consider visiting your share, security definition and update them.

      3. Iron Heart said on July 26, 2021 at 1:09 am
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        @Yash

        Wow, another poorly thought out comment of yours. If the default browser supposedly always wins, how did Internet Explorer fail back in the day? Or why is Chrome used more often on Macs than Safari is? When Firefox ate into the market share of Internet Explorer, people had to specifically download the .exe file of Firefox after specifically searching for it, and then install it. Compare this to a one click installation of Firfox from the Play Store an draw your conclusions. Even though it is much easier to switch today, people don’t want to use FF.

        Your shitty reasoning doesn’t explain Firefox’s poor reviews on the Play Store, or the recent rise of Brave, which is not the default anywhere (not even on Linux, where Firefox still draws a significant number of users from), and which is still arguably the weaker brand compared to Firefox. Concurrently with Brave’s rise, Firefox continued to be bled white, and none of the aforementioned advantages, and not even their zealous evangelists like you, could stop it. But yeah, it’s always the fault of tHe EViL MonOPoliEs when your shitty product fails, except when it’s not.

        > still 100 million downloads on Play Store

        Fails to account for the amount of deletions, not all installations are active anymore (people do switch phones). Over ten+ years? That’s a weak number in my book.

        Samsung Internet is about to supplant Firefox as 4th most used browsers (far behind Chrome and Safari, and behind Edge). And not just Firefox on Android, mind you, I mean the ENTIRETY of Firefox, ACROSS ALL PLATFORMS, is about to lose to Samsung Internet (which is Android-exclusive, and not even used by most Samsung users – most use Chrome). Firefox is a laughing stock in 2021.

        I won’t address the rest of your pointless comment, except by saying that one component of an OS being successfully attacked by malware doesn’t invalidate the protections in other parts of said OS. An operating system is too complex for one vulnerability to invalidate all of it. Accept that, and please, PRETTY PLEASE, move on.

  11. Daniel Winter said on July 19, 2021 at 8:16 pm
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    As a comparison, take a look at the Microsoft Edge feedback and discussion platform. Weekly blog updates and “feedback focus”. Quite amazing, but Big Ugly has turned out to be quite client focussed.

    1. ShintoPlasm said on July 19, 2021 at 11:48 pm
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      @Daniel Winter: Such a shame that MS didn’t go down the privacy route, though.

  12. Tony said on July 19, 2021 at 10:06 pm
    Reply

    Not very good at this aren’t you?

  13. John said on July 20, 2021 at 1:10 am
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    Mozilla doesn’t actually want to listen to it’s vocal users. It’s vocal users tend to want options and customization.

    What Mozilla wants, to whatever degree a corporation can be said to “want” anything, is a very fast minimalistic browser that can beat Chrome at it’s own game- essentially, the opposite of what it’s vocal users keep saying they want.

    Of course, what Mozilla wants isn’t going to happen, so what they are going to wind up doing is building a browser that strips enough options and customizations in the name of speed and minimalism that it’s diehard user base is ticked off and/or gone (Many already are- and that’s not just anecdotal, look at their marketshare), but that still doesn’t beat Chrome at it’s own game and is in fact “behind” in that metric, because Mozilla fully realizes that if they turned into the Chrome clone they want to be tomorrow, their user base would be less than 1% by Friday.

    Mozilla has this image of itself, or at least it’s PR want to project this image of it, of being sort of a community-driven non-profit (that is actually a for-profit only for technical reasons, or so they try to project) that creates a user-driven browser. When push comes to shove, they have absolutely no interest in actually doing what the image they’ve crafted dictates, though, and wonder why they’ve attracted a userbase that wants them to do what they’ve said they’re all about instead of what they are actually all about.

    You know, when a new version of Vivaldi for desktop comes out, usually what one can look for is what features and options they’ve added. Sometimes they’re kind of stupid, like having a clock in the bottom right corner, right above where the taskbar clock on Windows is, but you can turn off the ones like that that you don’t like off as though they’d never been added, with simple options in the GUI. The important thing is, they aren’t taking away options, they are adding them, even having to sort of do it fighting uphill because of their dependency on Chromium as the base of their web browser.

    When a new version of Firefox comes out, usually what one can look for is what they are taking away or changing for no reason. And every time that happens, they lose users.

    What Firefox did last summer to what used to be the best Android browser out there was atrocious. Iceraven for Android is trying to restore some of the options and choices, but is limited because it relies on one part-time developer (Still better than what Firefox is on Android right now, a year later, though, and would kick butt if it could get a few more people contributing code.). Firefox’s developers wanted to do what they wanted to do, and they did it, and some of the users who called them on it or asked for features back got banned from their Github and other platforms.

    I don’t happen to agree with the folks who say that the problem is that Google is Firefox’s default search engine. That’s been the case since almost the beginning, with a short interim where it was Yahoo instead, which people also complained about. I don’t think that they are intentionally making their browser worse out of some sort of fear that Google will pull it’s funding if they become competitive with Chrome (It’s also very easy on the user side to pick a different default search engine- you can do it in seconds), I think they are just arrogant and have a vison that is set in stone that doesn’t work well with the people they initially marketed their browser to, or the niche that is open for them for Firefox to return to and pick off users. The Firefox people want to be something that isn’t going to be a marketable reality for them, but they are sure it will be and that they are right and their vocal users are wrong, so they continue along the path.

    The Firefox devs claim they rely heavily on telemetry to make decisions, but I think their falling marketshare is showing how that is going for them, if that’s what they’re doing. The people who leave telemetry on are not the people who are going to install Firefox on the computers and phones of all their friends and family and wear a Firefox baseball cap or something. The key users are the ones who may have telemetry off, but will tell you, in great detail, what they want- that’s the real core user base and the user base Google isn’t really serving. That’s the path open to Mozilla if they will just get their you-know-whats out of their you-know-whats and reassess (I’m not holding my breath).

    1. pndy said on July 20, 2021 at 9:40 am
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      There are two main sources of problem Firefox suffers from: Mozilla Corporation which by definition tries to find a steady revenue to keep this circus and its CEO-level clowns running and every now and then has a “brilliant” idea how to milk out cash from the browser. The other is the attitude of developers that exist in the air for over 10 years – which isn’t just exclusive to Firefox and is present in the majority of software communities and downplays to “devs are the heroes and always right, even if they aren’t and the users are the source of our problems – you have to despise them and treat like your worst enemy and worse kind of humans” approach. This attitude and the corporate overlords presence results in *the* stagnation that gives obviously no ideas, no directions how to develop the application – majority of development turns into changes done for sake of changes, which serves as a proof to the big-guys-above that everything is keep on running and progress is being made. But this progress has no value nor quality at all and we can see it in Firefox market share and popularity.

      Similar things happen all around: operating system are feature-complete but developers do insignificant changes or introduce weird elements that serves no purpose and they try to shield themselves with telemetry arguments and vocal minorities when it comes to the criticism. Do we really need voice assistants, widgets that serve the “personalized” content on desktop computers or weird amalgamates of mobile and desktop interfaces? I really doubt it but for dev teams that’s the proof they *do* something and have very reason of the existence and being paid.

      The Google’s Chrome marketing campaign that wasn’t counter-measured by Mozilla on time and which lead in the long turn to the homogenization of browsers engines sphere and thus dominance of Blink is also the one of side source of where Firefox stand today.

  14. KERR said on July 20, 2021 at 1:39 am
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    Yeah I submitted a bunch of ideas and they’ve been stuck for like a month now. Really hope they listen! Hopefully they’ll get back into it soon.

  15. Anonymous said on July 20, 2021 at 2:25 am
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    Firefox is dead. I moved on to Edge.

  16. Princess Layah said on July 20, 2021 at 5:42 am
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    >As a comparison, take a look at the Microsoft Edge feedback and discussion platform.

    First, “Edge” is proprietary. So IMO it’s a no go for me and sane individuals.

    >Weekly blog updates and “feedback focus”.

    Of course! They wanna be #1, and who doesn’t? Money talks. You’d think with all of the money, power, and influence Microsoft could’ve created their own unique browser from the ground up. But, nope.

    1. Iron Heart said on July 20, 2021 at 8:39 am
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      @Princess Layah

      Web developers do not support fringe rendering engines. The old Edge with the EdgeHTML rendering engine had a minuscule market share, and thus it ran into issues with websites that were primarily written with Blink and WebKit in mind. Plus, rendering engine development is expensive.

      Microsoft saw no reason to carry on with this failure, a browser that ran into issues with websites more often than not and did cost a ton of money to maintain, when there was an open source project they could just freeride on (Chromium). This solved all the issues they had with websites not supporting their own rendering engine EdgeHTML – every website supports Blink, because of the market share of the engine – and saved them a ton of money, and incentivized users to use their product (because now, for the first time ever, Edge supports a huge library of browser extensions).

      In my opinion, Edge is just a spyware-laden version of Chromium that does nothing better than its more privacy-respecting counterparts Vivaldi or Brave for the average user. There is little rational reason to use it. Of course, as the default browser of Windows, it has more mindshare than its competitors, but that people recommend it even on a techie website that has privacy as one of its areas of focus (gHacks) is just sad.

  17. Anonymous said on July 20, 2021 at 6:12 am
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    “Registered users can post ideas and everyone else may vote on these ideas and leave comments. Mozilla would then decide whether to implement ideas in Firefox or not.”

    Yeah, as if Mozilla appreciates their users’ opinion.

  18. Iron Heart said on July 20, 2021 at 9:31 am
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    The fundamental problem with Firefox is that there is little technical reason to use it. It is inferior to Chromium in many respects, namely:

    – security
    – web compatibility
    – performance
    – average time until new web standards are implemented
    – enterprise support
    – web dev tools
    – range of extensions

    Extensions used to be a strong reason to use Firefox, it really had some amazing extensions like Tab Mix Plus or DownThemAll! or Roomy Bookmarks Toolbar in the past, but ever since Mozilla switched to WebExtensions (essentially Chromium’s extension APIs), those extensions are gone and Firefox is now no better than Chromium, except the selection of extensions is worse. That reason to use it is a goner.

    Privacy used to be a strong reason to use Firefox, and it probably still is superior to Chrome or Edge in that regard, but there too, it has started to lose ground to Brave. Over the yearsm Mozilla has introduced tons of telemetry into the product, still thinks it needs a backdoor into every Firefox installation (FF Experiments), and overall, doesn’t provide a product that protects privacy BY DEFAULT. And defaults matter, stupid, because that is how most people use their browser! “Use Firefox for your privacy, but you first have to change 1,308,754 settings first!” doesn’t sound very compelling, because it in fact isn’t very compelling!

    So what remains, if there is little technical reason to use Firefox? The main reasons I hear are ideological these days, the central one being “We need to prevent the Chromium / Blink monopoly!”. However, this too doesn’t hold much water upon closer inspection: First, the question of whether or not a 3% market share browser can shift the balance, any balance really… Personally, I think that web devs could safely and justifiably drop support for a browser with that kind of minuscule market share, so based on power and influence alone, I already doubt that the Firefox users even can be the change they aspire to be. Setting this aside, Google’s power doesn’t rest solely on the browser they develop, it also comes from their services – they can leverage those at any time. For example, if Google introduced a user-hostile new web standard (like their proposed Web Bundles: https://brave.com/webbundles-harmful-to-content-blocking-security-tools-and-the-open-web/ ), and started using it on YouTube, Google Search, Google Maps, Google Docs, GMail etc., other browser developers would have little choice but to support that web standard, no matter their rendering engine, because not supporting it would mean that their users would be excluded from Google-run services. Given the popularity of Google’s services, this seems highly unlikely, so I am not sure in how far Firefox having its own engine is even meaningful in any way, if Google says “Jump!” they would only ask “How high?”… Moreover, Blink-based browsers aside from Google Chrome itself may also decide not to support a certain web standard by disabling it by default. That being said, they would face the same issue as Firefox or Safari in that scenario; if Google makes use of said web standard on their popular services, they would have little choice but to enable it.

    In my opinion, Firefox having its own rendering engine is not solving anything, all in all because:

    – Its market share is ridiculously low and doesn’t shift any balance. It is a mere nuisance.
    – Google can leverage its web service empire at any given moment if they really wanted to push through any given web standard.

    The first might be fixable (however, not without providing a technical, non-ideological reason to use Firefox), but the latter seems very hard to do. Google’s services are very easy / convenient to use and nobody else offers EVERYTHING coming from the same provider. Google gives their users a whole suite of tools to use for free (those tools are also being advertised on the most visited website ever, Google Search), and registering with a whole range of different providers to replace any given tool is not very compelling. Plus, if the alternative is to be privacy-respecting, it is a paid service more often than not. Companies have to make money somehow, if the product is handed out for free, then you are the actual product. If you don’t want to be the product, pay. So you’d have to give up convenience and some money if you really want to drop Google, and I don’t see it happening with most people. However, if the “Google services” angle isn’t tackled at the same time, switching people to a different browser engine will do nothing to improve the health of the web, in my opinion. And even then, I fail to see how Firefox not implementing a nefarious web standard is considered superior to a Chromium-based browser removing or disabling said nefarious web standard. What’s the difference? Can’t even argue with the open source angle because Chromium-based browsers can be open source, too.

    If there is little if any technical reason to use Firefox, and if the ideological reason is also built on quick sand, the current 3% market share (which is still declining) will be the consequence. Firefox needs some credible commitment to user privacy (mainly by enabling privacy-enhancing settings by default), and desperately needs a unique selling point (like getting paid for browsing – Brave – or strong customization abilities – Vivaldi). Plus, they need to catch up with all the points I mentioned above, i.e. security, performance etc.
    Don’t see it happening – if anything, Mozilla seems more interested in becoming an Internet activist organization even more so than they already are. Even on their website, one can see more more and more commitment to what basically amounts to activism, even political activism. I feel that their recent endorsement of political Internet censorship (“We need more than deplatforming.”) will deliver the final blow to their product, and their image of being a somewhat neutral organization having the Internet’s best interests at heart. What good is software freedom if the same people want to take away our actual freedom?

    I think we are dealing with a failing product here that has very little, if any, hope of recovery. I expect the future to be a duopoly between Apple’s WebKit (there is no reason to think that they will be switching to Blink as long as their devices achieve strong sales) and a whole family of browsers all derived from Chromium (akin to different Linux distributions all using the Linux kernel), I think especially Edge and Brave have potential to eat into Chrome’s market share, going by their growth stats. I don’t see Mozilla being a key player in the future, all things considered.

    1. Yash said on July 20, 2021 at 11:21 am
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      @Iron Heart

      Most of the comment is same old nonsense and off topic except Privacy where you said one line which is true – Firefox is better for privacy. As for other things – web compatibility – yeah right, same old….
      – performance – yeah right, same old…. any example?
      – average time until new web standards are implemented – yeah right unfortunately for Brave.
      – enterprise support – still laughing
      – web dev tools – good joke.
      – range of extensions – the best joke yet. Anything about Manifest V3 on Brave? Okay I get Chromium is open source and Google will find a way eventually to stop it ;-)

      As for security, would you care to elaborate? I know what you would say but I just want to see the certain links that you can present that *can* back up the claim of Firefox being not secure.
      Afterall there is currently a security issue that is hot topic around the world which has many things to say about sandboxes and what not. Mention certain quotes about Firefox security, I’m eager to see them ;-)

      Thanks to editor if full comment get published.

      1. ShintoPlasm said on July 20, 2021 at 1:24 pm
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        @Yash:

        The web compatibility issues are very real, though. I have myself reported a variety of such problems over the years (mostly via Webcompat) and it’s becoming worse. There is an obvious trend with devs simply not caring about Gecko anymore and just going with the Blink flow. I don’t think you can deny that, surely?

      2. Yash said on July 20, 2021 at 11:21 pm
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        @ShintoPlasm

        Well I wouldn’t deny it as I have reported some myself as well but most of the time its the website at fault e.g. Apple ones who did it on purpose. Surely its not a coincidence. Most of the time a change in some settings of extension made it work for me in other websites. And don’t get me wrong as one user said what Mozilla did to Android Firefox last year was a crime but still it works well for the most part unless the website developers(usually Big companies) do things on purpose.

      3. ShintoPlasm said on July 21, 2021 at 11:16 am
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        @Yash:

        I agree that it’s often the websites’ fault. This doesn’t detract from the fact that using FF is becoming more and more of a hassle as a growing number of websites/devs simply don’t care about its engine anymore. We can (and do) report these incompatibilities but the tide is against FF – it’s just not good enough for a browser to “work well for the most part” for most users…

      4. Yash said on July 22, 2021 at 10:53 am
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        @Shintoplasm

        “We can (and do) report these incompatibilities but the tide is against FF – it’s just not good enough for a browser to “work well for the most part” for most users…”
        Well I don’t necessarily agree with most part for most users as I use Firefox for all purposes. And not just on Desktop, in Android too, but then I haven’t seen all websites so there can be issues which I don’t know yet. For me its working fine.

        Plus with mainstream Pegasus news and Edward Snowden advice, I assume something drastic will be done which will hopefully put an end to Big tech’s nonsense of making things difficult for other organisations on purpose in the name of industry leading security measures which were not and never will be industry leading. Afterall when most things are done only for Capitalism, life becomes difficult for some organisations like Mozilla, but eventually the bubble bursts and reality hits. In the end iPhones were not secure, Apple is not industry leading in security because of its closed system, Google is trash and its sandboxes failed in most humiliating way possible to the demise of Daniel Micay’s words towards Firefox. So I don’t buy into look Firefox will fail because few users use it, things are not bad now and they will become good. If anything monopoly needs to be controlled and its about time too. As Snowden said if one can hack an iPhone, millions are at risk. Same for Chromium especially when Google doesn’t give a shit for its users.

      5. Iron Heart said on July 20, 2021 at 1:35 pm
        Reply

        @Yash

        Discussions with you are pointless and a huge time sink, if your prior history on this website here is anything to go by. You should realize that yes-men and diehards are a problem, because you are blocking positive changes, trying to justify the status quo. You didn’t refute any of the points I raised, and you will find the same argument I made here anywhere else on the Internet except for places like r/firefox where the opinion is hopelessly skewed in one direction.

        Chromium has more agile development, wins in most if not all benchmarks, and consistently achieves higher HTML5 scores than Firefox. Those are the facts, you will have a hard time finding any objective comparison that Firefox wins. They’ve implemented an enterprise policy generator only with Firefox 60 in 2018, when Chrome had already supplanted Internet Explorer in the business sphere. Winning in the realm of enterprise deployment is key because a) work-related tasks generate significant traffic online and b) because people are likely to use at home what they are using at work. Firefox has cared little for enterprise for years and it now comes back to bite them, what they did in 2018 was “too little, too late”. Firefox had abysmal web dev tools for years, hence why the extension “Firebug” existed to make up for a lack of quality there. They have stepped up their game there, but they are still lagging behind and have lost most web dev support to Chromium.

        Firefox also lacks behind when it comes to security. You deny that, but it seems Mozilla themselves are refuting you, as they are still trying to implement real site isolation (Project Fission) a whole decade after Chrome has had it. Firefox still suffers from trivial sandbox escapes and has to fix a whole range of memory safety bugs with every major update, because despite the introduction of Rust, none of the most attacked components are actually written in that memory-safe language. Chromium will probably get there earlier despite Mozilla being the inventors of Rust, which is pretty hilarious if you think about it.

        You are still(!) harping on Manifest V3, which is a broad set of modifications to the extension APIs, the majority of which are clearly beneficial as extension developers will tell you. What people mean when complaining about “Manifest V3” is usually the deprecation of the webRequest API in favor of the declarativeNetRequest API, which was done to crack down on the ability of extensions to intercept and redirect traffic. Malicious extensions have made use of this extensively, hence the necessity of action. The declarativeNetRequest API can perform the same functionality except now extensions are forced to hand over the rules they want to see executed to the browser. This is objectively a good thing. Google has introduced a rule limit at the same time which is not good for adblockers, however, this will only affect you if a) you actually exceed the rule limit and if b) you use a browser that doesn’t have a native adblocker like Brave. Why Brave users in particular should be up in arms about this according to you, is beyond me. This will affect extensions that are not strictly necessary for us, you see. And if you want to play the blame game, blame the malware extension authors who misused the elevated privileges extension have enjoyed so far. The outrage over changes is done with lots of drama and very little knowledge and acknowledgement of the reasoning, in my opinion. Or malicious actions of people like you who make the continued ability of extensions to intercept and redirect traffic out to be an advantage of Firefox – which it is not, it is just another attack vector unfixed by Mozilla. Only the browser itself should have the ability do do that, and I think Brave is doing it correctly. Again, the technical loss here is nil for Brave users in particular.

        Last but not least, you said Firefox is “better” for privacy. “Better” than what, exactly? Better than Chrome and Edge? A high bar to aspire to indeed, I must say. Firefox allows most types of privacy intrusions by default and is worse than Brave in that regard. Most people don’t use their browsers with modified settings (which might also increase the fingerprinting risk), they use the defaults. Firefox does very little to protect most of their users, yet they still come up with their usual privacy slogans. I shall respect them once they at least try to provide Brave’s privacy level by default.

        Last but not least, I don’t know what your motivations are or based on what set of beliefs you act, but what I cannot understand is your instance on defending a company that advocates clamping down hard on freedom of expression online, counteracting their own manifesto. if you think that you are somehow one of the good guys, I think you are in for a bitter awakening. Mozilla is one of the gravediggers of the Internet as we know it, and will solve no problem.

      6. Yash said on July 20, 2021 at 5:57 pm
        Reply

        @Iron Heart

        “Chromium has more agile development, wins in most if not all benchmarks, and consistently achieves higher HTML5 scores than Firefox. Those are the facts, you will have a hard time finding any objective comparison that Firefox wins.”
        Higher HTML5 scores, very scientific like Yuliya did couple of months back though I did provided a screenshot. And objective comparison – here is one I use Firefox everyday and also try other browser in approx. every month to notice some changes. I don’t notice them, in some cases Firefox works better. Of course some examples are always welcome.

        “Firefox also lacks behind when it comes to security. You deny that, but it seems Mozilla themselves are refuting you, as they are still trying to implement real site isolation (Project Fission) a whole decade after Chrome has had it. Firefox still suffers from trivial sandbox escapes”
        I was expecting this. Of course Firefox has serious security issues and only Firefox users are unaware because they’re all hacked, right. Project Fission – good of you to mention it. Trivial sandbox escape – again laughable. See this – https://twitter.com/0xjosh/status/1416949289058701320 retweeted by none other than Daniel Micay – sandbox expert. Enjoy superior security with Chromium and sandboxes until Fission ;-)

        “introduction of Rust, none of the most attacked components are actually written in that memory-safe language. Chromium will probably get there earlier despite Mozilla being the inventors of Rust, which is pretty hilarious if you think about it.”
        First I don’t get how Firefox is insecure but then maybe all the Firefox users are in alternate reality.
        About Rust – well if you studied Biology and more specific Ecology, there is something called Pioneer. Forest doesn’t grow overnight in rocky mountains until it has been showed the way by Lichens, Bryophytes. I can go deeper than that but then it is not necessary. Of course I presume Brave and Chromium developers would be watching closely to grab the first proper sight of Rust and claiming it as theirs.

        About Firefox privacy, yeah I guess hiding snake oil value like device name and others is not good, which is why Brave is doing the same thing. See Brave team following the pioneers. And same would happen in Manifest V3, just wait and watch. And I can’t stop laughing about the mention of Brave’s internal adblocker over and over again, I think it is superior to content blockers like uBlock Origin which will work just fine in Firefox even after the changes.
        For other things – same old nonsense.

      7. Iron Heart said on July 21, 2021 at 2:11 pm
        Reply

        @Yash

        Gosh, you are such a time sink. Have you nothing to do other than defending self-declared enemies of Internet freedom? What is your goal even? Should people switch to mediocre software that won’t respect their human rights by censoring their speech, just because?

        You should be glad that Mozilla sits at 3% market share and has zero influence right now, if they were to move out of the outer rim of the Internet and regained some of their lost influence, they would be emboldened to go after people for political reasons. They would:

        – Block certain websites outright.
        – Scan the content of text fields for anything Commiezilla and their ilk considers “offensive”.
        – Report such incidents to either a state authority or a private activist organization that aims to combat free speech, uhm, I mean “hate speech” of course.

        That’s what they would do if they had any real power. I consider you promoting this rotten organization to be highly offensive, unacceptable. Understand this. I have no respect for this type of BS, I have no respect for you as long as you promote it.

        Beyond your inability to see what Mozilla is all about these days, you also show yourself for the ignorant you are once again. You are making very basic errors that are laughable upon closer inspection:

        – HTML5 scores are not a good tool to measure the HTML support of a browser? Seriously? Those literally tell you what standards a browser support, but OK… Doesn’t matter, I guess.
        – Sandboxes are necessary because Firefox hardly has any memory-safe code where it matters. Firefox’s sandbox sucks, Rust is not where it should be in the code base. Accept that, move on. You don’t even understand the tweets that you are posting yourself.
        – You still don’t understand that other than uBlock Origin, a whole range of malware extensions were also using the webRequest API to INTERCEPT traffic and then REDIRECT it to MALWARE-LADEN domains. I feel that I need to put things in capital letters here as if I was talking to a child, but even then I fear that you won’t understand why EXTENSIONS SHOULD NOT HAVE THIS CAPABILITY. I am deaf to Raymond Hill’s crying, I am deaf to your crying. Raymond realizes perfectly well that this capability is used by malware but insists on retaining it, because I aM uSInG iT fOr GOoD. Yeah, right. Get off my lawn, you fool.
        – This whole discussion is 100% pointless before it has even begun because Brave is not in need of an adblocker. Not. in. need. of. an. adblocker. Don’t need uBlock Origin or any other bandaid extension when it’s included already.

        I am laughing at your whining above, by the way. WhY ArE wEb DeVs NOt sUPPortINg mY 3% mARkeT ShAre brOWser? You are making it sound as if it’s some kind of malicious intention when in fact your own irrelevancy is the reason why web devs have stopped testing for Gecko. Losing every 33rd visitor is acceptable if separate testing for them is too costly, that’s the truth. Truly, the new Pale Moon.

      8. Yash said on July 22, 2021 at 10:28 am
        Reply

        @Iron Heart

        “Gosh, you are such a time sink. Have you nothing to do other than defending self-declared enemies of Internet freedom? What is your goal even? Should people switch to mediocre software that won’t respect their human rights by censoring their speech, just because?

        You should be glad that Mozilla sits at 3% market share and has zero influence right now, if they were to move out of the outer rim of the Internet and regained some of their lost influence, they would be emboldened to go after people for political reasons. They would:

        – Block certain websites outright.
        – Scan the content of text fields for anything Commiezilla and their ilk considers “offensive”.
        – Report such incidents to either a state authority or a private activist organization that aims to combat free speech, uhm, I mean “hate speech” of course.

        That’s what they would do if they had any real power. I consider you promoting this rotten organization to be highly offensive, unacceptable. Understand this. I have no respect for this type of BS, I have no respect for you as long as you promote it.

        Beyond your inability to see what Mozilla is all about these days, you also show yourself for the ignorant you are once again.”
        You seriously have to mix everything from politics to censorship to Mozilla in same sentences without even using some common sense over and over again. Seriously you haven’t seen 10% of the full picture. But then not my job to correct your stupidity. So enjoy this nonsense.

        “You are making very basic errors that are laughable upon closer inspection:

        – HTML5 scores are not a good tool to measure the HTML support of a browser? Seriously? Those literally tell you what standards a browser support, but OK… Doesn’t matter, I guess.”
        You don’t read properly, I said I provided a screenshot where scores were same. See that first, in previous articles in Smartcookiepreview Web article if I remember correctly. Also scores don’t explain performance, Bromite latest JavaScript protection decrease performance(not massively), check Daniel Micay twitter, so does scores matter there?
        I try many browsers in few months and so far I haven’t notice reduced performance in Firefox infact in some websites, Firefox works faster too. Of course some examples are always welcome besides pointless ranting.

        “– Sandboxes are necessary because Firefox hardly has any memory-safe code where it matters. Firefox’s sandbox sucks, Rust is not where it should be in the code base. Accept that, move on. You don’t even understand the tweets that you are posting yourself.”
        You’re right, Firefox is not secure to the point that all Firefox users live in alternate reality where it is secure ;-)
        Of course some real world examples for Firefox security issues are always welcome :-)

        “– You still don’t understand that other than uBlock Origin, a whole range of malware extensions were also using the webRequest API to INTERCEPT traffic and then REDIRECT it to MALWARE-LADEN domains. I feel that I need to put things in capital letters here as if I was talking to a child, but even then I fear that you won’t understand why EXTENSIONS SHOULD NOT HAVE THIS CAPABILITY. I am deaf to Raymond Hill’s crying, I am deaf to your crying. Raymond realizes perfectly well that this capability is used by malware but insists on retaining it, because I aM uSInG iT fOr GOoD. Yeah, right. Get off my lawn, you fool.”
        First this is a public forum and so behave accordingly. Second cry more as content blockers days are already numbered in Chromium, not in Firefox mind, of course I would be keeping close eye on Brave’s joke of internal adblocker. Seriously in your comments you shamelessly trashed Raymond Hill. Of course everyone is evil bar Iron Heart. Even Brave team who did something which was against your stupid browser fingerprinting definitions.
        And about crying, who is crying on what? Me using Firefox with a smile or Raymond Hill who doesn’t take any donations. Make your mind first.

        “I am laughing at your whining above, by the way. WhY ArE wEb DeVs NOt sUPPortINg mY 3% mARkeT ShAre brOWser?”
        I’m still laughing.

      9. Iron Heart said on July 26, 2021 at 12:49 am
        Reply

        @Yash

        I don’t have time to waste here, so this will be my last reply to you here.

        > You seriously have to mix everything from politics to censorship to Mozilla in same sentences without even using some common sense over and over again. Seriously you haven’t seen 10% of the full picture. But then not my job to correct your stupidity. So enjoy this nonsense.

        https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/we-need-more-than-deplatforming/

        They chose to make this about the politics, I am just following them in their footsteps. Contrary to many other companies which virtue signal relentlessly, Mozilla produces a tool that would actually allow them to implement online censorship, hence why it’s a problem.

        > I try many browsers in few months and so far I haven’t notice reduced performance in Firefox infact in some websites, Firefox works faster too. Of course some examples are always welcome besides pointless ranting.

        Your anecdotal “evidence” is worthless. I think the usage stats clearly say which product actually works for most users, and it’s not Firefox.

        > You’re right, Firefox is not secure to the point that all Firefox users live in alternate reality where it is secure ;-)

        Is this another case of anecdotal “evidence”? That you’ve never been hacked proves nothing, once again. It probably just means that you have never exposed yourself to malware, which in turn means that you either do not browse on shady websites or that you take your precautions when you do (disabling JavaScript, disabling scripting in PDFs etc.). Does this anecdotal “evidence” mean that Firefox is a secure product? No, it just means that, if you never challenge it, you won’t ever find out.

        Firefox is demonstrably less secure than Chromium because it doesn’t have certain exploit mitigations (I am still waiting for your rebuttal to the content of the following link):

        https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/firefox-chromium.html

        > Of course some real world examples for Firefox security issues are always welcome :-)

        Feel free to choose any of them:

        https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/advisories/

        > First this is a public forum and so behave accordingly

        I will – once you stop wasting my time. That too, is a form of disrespect.

        > Second cry more as content blockers days are already numbered in Chromium,

        Not every content blocker is an extension, so no.

        > of course I would be keeping close eye on Brave’s joke of internal adblocker.

        Do you think a script cares which blocker blocks it? uBlock Origin has nothing to do on Brave because the browser already blocks. Accept that, move on.

        > Seriously in your comments you shamelessly trashed Raymond Hill. Of course everyone is evil bar Iron Heart.

        I am not trashing the person Raymond Hill, just his shitty reasoning. His extension uses the webRequest API, so in his mind, it has to be kept no matter what. Problem is, the vast majority of malware extensions have also used it so far, but dear Raymond never ever considers that point, because his own precious extension uses the API in a way that is not malicious. That this is awfully poor reasoning and fails to account for grave security issues with the API should be apparent even to you, @Yash.

        > Even Brave team who did something which was against your stupid browser fingerprinting definitions.

        Maybe they seem stupid to you – because they actually make sense. I mean, I am talking to a person here who thinks that hiding the device name does anything when the device can still be found out via other metrics (screen resolution, hardware concurrency, amount of RAM, GPU model found out via WebGL etc. pp.). You believe in snake oil, in hiding low value shit that still leaks in other ways. That level of stupidity is hard to fathom.

        > Me using Firefox with a smile

        I don’t even give a shit. The problem lies with you promoting the spyware to others.

        > I’m still laughing.

        Laughing implies that I was joking, but I wasn’t. As a matter of fact, it has 3% market share, why should anyone outside the fanboy bubble give a damn?

      10. Yash said on July 26, 2021 at 1:15 pm
        Reply

        @Iron Heart

        First about your comment in another thread, if you can’t read properly just admit it. In that thread I clearly mentioned shady practices of Google and Apple in mobile ecosystem and yet you had to include Macs, Internet Explorer, Linux and more. Seriously stick to the damn topic which BTW you started in the first place. Or maybe you consider yourself jack of all trades in all comments, however in reality master in none. Not to forget you didn’t address the points raised in your ignorance and totalitarian mindset.

        About this latest comment of a joke –

        “I don’t have time to waste here, so this will be my last reply to you here.”
        Classic Iron Heart tactic, when you can’t provide facts you adopt a different strategy. Have to say I’m happy for your latest comment which took 4 days judging by comment dates, atleast there are other things in your life like in everyone else’s life.

        I see you mentioned again that link of Mozilla’s deplatforming, though in this article there was no mention of it and certainly not by another user. And it was you who mentioned politics here in first place.
        Political opinions are always personal so do what you like. However a little bit of common sense would be good too.

        And one more thing if someone gets banned from social media platforms, it is not the end and whole world was doing fine before, and orange idiot can still share his stupid views without them. End of the story and hopefully politics too in tech comments.

        “Is this another case of anecdotal “evidence”? That you’ve never been hacked proves nothing, once again. It probably just means that you have never exposed yourself to malware, which in turn means that you either do not browse on shady websites or that you take your precautions when you do (disabling JavaScript, disabling scripting in PDFs etc.). Does this anecdotal “evidence” mean that Firefox is a secure product? No, it just means that, if you never challenge it, you won’t ever find out.

        Firefox is demonstrably less secure than Chromium because it doesn’t have certain exploit mitigations (I am still waiting for your rebuttal to the content of the following link):

        https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/firefox-chromium.html
        First you didn’t share any real world examples of issues in Firefox security which were exploited in the wild.
        “If you never challenge it, you won’t ever find out” – I never said Firefox is perfect(feel free to mention where I said this) and this applies to every software. So stop saying that and mention any real incidents with Firefox security.
        Also you *again* mentioned madainwhatever guy. He was already a joke. That guy says to stay away from desktop and use mobile devices – good joke. Use stock rom or GrapheneOS – I can see pros for GrapheneOS but stock rom, laughable. He also says to use updated iPhone, which is a good joke. Thankfully madainwhatever guy’s bubble has been bursted by Pegasus. If anything he proved himself he was a trash guy all along.

        However I will admit madain guy has said some good things too – use Bitwarden or Keepass for password manager, Aegis for 2FA. I use them products personally but he has said some very questionable things too and some proved to be an illusion rightly so.
        Also I must say you Iron Heart on purpose mention quotes of other people without using your brain. Yeah madain guy is not good but you mention him without any context. Stop mentioning someone else for your stupid opinions.

        “Feel free to choose any of them:

        https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/advisories/
        Of course you have to say this. I can only assume Brave doesn’t have any issues and Chromium also doesn’t. In replying to Brave Heart about Chromium issues on another article you said this is normal. And yet here Iron Heart is saying this. How pathetic you really are!

        “I will – once you stop wasting my time. That too, is a form of disrespect.”
        “Stop wasting my time” – who here in the articles constantly trash Firefox as if his life depends on it and all the time does just one thing – pointless ranting without using any FACTS.
        “That too, is a form of disrespect.” That is a good joke man, have to say.

        “Do you think a script cares which blocker blocks it? uBlock Origin has nothing to do on Brave because the browser already blocks. Accept that, move on.”
        Even Brave website has mentioned uBO and they themselves have said, most of their work of their internal adblocker is based on what uBO already does. Use your uncensored internet and find that yourself if you can.

        “I am not trashing the person Raymond Hill, just his shitty reasoning. His extension uses the webRequest API, so in his mind, it has to be kept no matter what. Problem is, the vast majority of malware extensions have also used it so far, but dear Raymond never ever considers that point, because his own precious extension uses the API in a way that is not malicious. That this is awfully poor reasoning and fails to account for grave security issues with the API should be apparent even to you, @Yash.”
        The vast majority of malware extension doesn’t have high number of users, so that shouldn’t matter if your usage share definitions are anything to go by. And stopping a very good extension in uBO on purpose for some shitty security definition is what is expected of Google which they’re doing right now. Seriously you haven’t got a clue and you have to talk like you know everything which you clearly don’t.
        Plus uBO does thing more than blocking ads, of course you’re than welcome to point in future in maybe 2030 when Brave will finally start doing the same thing uBO does now, which as always will be incomplete, buggy and total trash.

        “Maybe they seem stupid to you – because they actually make sense. I mean, I am talking to a person here who thinks that hiding the device name does anything when the device can still be found out via other metrics (screen resolution, hardware concurrency, amount of RAM, GPU model found out via WebGL etc. pp.). You believe in snake oil, in hiding low value shit that still leaks in other ways. That level of stupidity is hard to fathom.”
        Well you can’t read properly, you just showed that. According to you hiding device name was pointless and yet when even Brave itself started doing it(BTW I said your browser fingerprinting definitions are stupid and total trash and you’re replying saying I said Brave team is stupid – well spotted), you’re still saying it a snake oil low value, seriously that stupidity is hard to fathom. Maybe tell Brave team to start showing device name again as it is a snake oil low value ;-)

  19. Tim said on July 20, 2021 at 9:47 am
    Reply

    Firefox is my favorite browser but I must agree – it may be dead soon, Mozilla’s staff will loose their jobs and we will have to use another browser…
    For my money, Mozilla tends to dissipate its energy and resources by opening (and then closing) unnecessary projects. Experimenting is not bad, but in Mozilla’s case it seems futile. And their choices usually don’t match what FF users would choose, at least judging by comments on Internet. Can’t they have a sensible online form with clearcut, detailed questions on their website where users could type in their suggestions, observations etc? I would do it gladly. I doubt they have good telemetry feedback…
    For me there is no good replacement for Firefox. If it goes, I will probably use Brave. Vivaldi is good for power users and closed source, too many superfluous features, I could consider using it tho’. Chromium… I don’t really like it. Others – nope.

  20. Peter said on July 20, 2021 at 10:23 am
    Reply

    Mozilla is more or less dead by now, but is kept on financial life support by Google. Not since Nero/Ahead software, have i witnessed by company so deaf and out-of-touch with it’s userbase as Mozilla. Users have repeatedly told Mozilla what they want from Firefox; Optimize the code, iron out bugs & STOP putting the main focus on making changes to the UI. But to no avail because Mozilla (and Mitchell Baker in particular) doesn’t care about the users, they care about Google money. Crowdcity is a perfect reflection of lack of interest in the userbase.

  21. Graham said on July 20, 2021 at 12:00 pm
    Reply

    Well, when you turn away and ignore your fanbase for years, you’re not going to get much interaction, are you?

  22. ryuk said on July 20, 2021 at 12:27 pm
    Reply

    This endless “dancing on your grave” party is really getting old…

  23. Ian Sanders said on July 20, 2021 at 12:48 pm
    Reply

    I love much about Mozilla, including their incredible Firefox browser. It is an amazing web browser that is unmatched when it comes to customization.

    But Mozilla’s ability/willingness to actually listen to their proficient customer-base has been horrid for years.

    Instead, they rely on their repeated misinterpretations of limited telemetry data supplied (perhaps unknowingly) by their least enthusiastic supporters.

    I was a frequent contributor to Bugzilla for years, but I got tired of bugs/issues being ignored for literally over a decade. For example, after searching for a bookmark, if you want to know which bookmark folder stores the result, good luck. You’ll have to install yet another extension for that basic functionality.

    I have offered to help Mozilla on multiple occasions as long as they compensate me for my time and work. So far, they have only been interested if I’ll work for free, while their CEO makes millions. I find that to be morally unacceptable and unjust. Which is really too bad, because Mozilla does lead much of the world in so many areas when it comes to justice, especially as it relates to technology. But their blind spots are as wide and tall as a double-decker bus, and I’ve seen little to no improvement in their willingness to address them.

    So, Mozilla, we love much about you, but you need to walk the walk, and not just talk the talk.

    Personally, after over a decade of trying to help, I’ve decided it’s rarely worth my time to help Mozilla outside of using their web browser. I would love to help more, but I have real expenses (many of them medical) that must be paid, and so I can’t spend my time trying to help a project that doesn’t truly value my help or my time.

    This article illustrates yet another example of Mozilla dropping the ball after they talked the talk.

    The gHacks forums are a somewhat open forum, and I welcome a public response from Mozilla. However, at this point, it would be foolish to hold my breath waiting for a response or even a simple acknowledgement.

  24. Sebas said on July 20, 2021 at 1:28 pm
    Reply

    Martin you stated on August 11, 2020:

    “Mozilla wants to focus on new products and wants to make sure that its values are part of the products; this may not please everyone, especially those who believe that tech products should not be paired with political agendas or other non-tech activities.

    A pessimist might see the announcement in the following way: use the Firefox money as long as it is there to push other tech products and certain ideals.” See: https://staging-ghacksnet.kinsta.cloud/2020/08/11/mozilla-lays-off-250-employees-in-massive-company-reorganization/

  25. Mystique said on July 20, 2021 at 2:18 pm
    Reply

    A complete system/website designed to patronize and condescend to its users whilst not living up to any of its claims… yeah this is totally mozilla added to the fact that it was completely abandoned, it has all the hallmarks of modern day mozilla.

    I don’t know if I predicted this and wrote a comment about it on an article here already when this entire scheme was hatched but it was plain to see this was going to happen. I mean they have always had facilities to report bugs or ask for changes and people’s comments had already fallen on death ears for a decade then and there so why would people expect any different when all they did was dress this up as something just to patronize you.

    I can’t imagine how cheated and betrayed extension developers feel after being told that they Mozilla would help and support them to get their extensions ported to the new woeful webextension system which is still in its alpha/beta stages as little to nothing has been done to improve it since its inception. If there is anything they should abandon its that. I’m sorry but if you think that this poor excuse for an extension system is up to snuff then you are misinformed and have no idea how inadequate this extension system is.

    Mozilla is so far apart from the Mozilla of old.

    I’m not even going to bother to compare this browser to others because that is just another rabbit hole which will just hijack the conversation, lets just leave it at ‘All browser suck these days some suck less and some suck more.’ I will say that the latest chromium at least has some improvements to tab management but it’s still not great overall.

    Silently use what you want but don’t go to bat for them because they definitely will not go to bat for you.

    Mozilla is a company, not a community and have no interest in its users the software or what you think. All they care is that you use it and themselves. Google is the same, if not worse. I mean they are all ‘Monetizing’ you in some manner or another.

  26. Anonymous said on July 20, 2021 at 5:37 pm
    Reply

    Mozilla continue to shoot themselves in the foot.

    Unless they were fully committed to this project it should never have been started.

    All they have achieved is raising expectations amongst users and then treated them with disdain.

    Better to have done nothing than confirm their unwillingness to properly engage/listen.

  27. ULBoom said on July 21, 2021 at 3:01 pm
    Reply

    OMG, this crap is back, paragraph after paragraph of logical fallacies and pure opinion presented as bases for factual arguments.

    Same exact junk that’s been irrationally pagesplattered since Google destroyed the browser market and became decidedly evil.

    Spitting into the wind.

    1. Iron Heart said on July 22, 2021 at 3:25 am
      Reply

      So what? You and your nonsense are back as well.

  28. SR said on July 22, 2021 at 10:58 pm
    Reply

    “Focus on new products” translates perfectly as “we’re bored of the browser for whose quality we no longer care”. Impervious to users desires, the only protest that matters is abandoning Firefox (or changing the user agent string to Chrome) in protest.
    We, the USERS, are why they have market share. No market share and they become irrelevant.
    Those who ignore entreaties are best punished by abandonment. Netscape was generally abandoned, begat Phoenix begat Firefox and forks, and Firefox can likewise be abandoned. There are other browsers.

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